In this episode, we're joined by Matthew, a seasoned real estate investor and entrepreneur, who shares his unconventional yet highly effective approach to real estate deals. Matthew discusses how he's successfully integrated a hybrid model that combines the speed of cash offers with the potential of MLS listings to create a win-win solution for both investors and homeowners. Matthew's journey began with a strong background in building and selling businesses. He shared how he leveraged his entrepreneurial experience to scale his real estate ventures rapidly. One of the key takeaways from his journey is the importance of adaptability and finding innovative solutions to navigate changing market conditions, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. One of the most intriguing aspects of Matthew's approach is his transparency and open communication with sellers. He explained how he presents sellers with a choice between a cash offer and listing on the MLS, emphasizing the advantages of the hybrid model. By doing so, he's achieved an impressive success rate in convincing sellers to opt for the MLS route, all while maintaining a high level of integrity and trust. Matthew also revealed how his team handles the paperwork and fees associated with this hybrid model. While it may not be as protected as traditional innovation documents, Matthew has found a streamlined and effective way to make it work for his business. This episode is a must-listen for anyone in the real estate industry looking for fresh, innovative strategies to close deals and provide value to homeowners. Matthew's journey and insights are a testament to the power of adaptability, transparency, and creative problem-solving in the world of real estate investing. • Matthew shares his journey of building and selling multiple businesses before entering the real estate industry. • He discusses the shift in focus towards passive income, leading to the creation of Healthy Heart Vending, a company promoting healthy snacks in vending machines. • Matthew's venture into the senior care niche with Keystone Bath, selling home medical products to seniors, and scaling the business. • The transition to real estate investing after discovering it on YouTube and how it led to the founding of Fifth Avenue Property Group. • Matthew's strategic approach to wholesaling, combining elements of innovation and listing on the MLS to maximize profits. • The importance of adapting and finding creative solutions in the ever-changing real estate market, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. • Matthew's success in scaling his real estate business quickly, driven by his prior entrepreneurial experiences and the ability to systematize processes effectively. Connect with Matthew at https://www.instagram.com/therealmatthewsimmons/ And after that head on over to... https://easysell411.com https://billyalvaro.com https://billyssecrets.com Who knows maybe you will be our next partner? To get some neat (and FREE) Tools | Tips | Tricks to help you in REI!
In this episode, we're joined by Matthew, a seasoned real estate investor and entrepreneur, who shares his unconventional yet highly effective approach to real estate deals. Matthew discusses how he's successfully integrated a hybrid model that combines the speed of cash offers with the potential of MLS listings to create a win-win solution for both investors and homeowners.
Matthew's journey began with a strong background in building and selling businesses. He shared how he leveraged his entrepreneurial experience to scale his real estate ventures rapidly. One of the key takeaways from his journey is the importance of adaptability and finding innovative solutions to navigate changing market conditions, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic.
One of the most intriguing aspects of Matthew's approach is his transparency and open communication with sellers. He explained how he presents sellers with a choice between a cash offer and listing on the MLS, emphasizing the advantages of the hybrid model. By doing so, he's achieved an impressive success rate in convincing sellers to opt for the MLS route, all while maintaining a high level of integrity and trust.
Matthew also revealed how his team handles the paperwork and fees associated with this hybrid model. While it may not be as protected as traditional innovation documents, Matthew has found a streamlined and effective way to make it work for his business.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone in the real estate industry looking for fresh, innovative strategies to close deals and provide value to homeowners. Matthew's journey and insights are a testament to the power of adaptability, transparency, and creative problem-solving in the world of real estate investing.
Connect with Matthew at https://www.instagram.com/therealmatthewsimmons/
And after that head on over to...
Who knows maybe you will be our next partner?
To get some neat (and FREE) Tools | Tips | Tricks to help you in REI!
Billy 00:00
What's going on guys? Welcome back to another episode of unstoppable Rei wealth. This is episode 114. Today I'm interviewing Matthew Simmons serial entrepreneur. Really interesting conversation with him actually I'm in CG with him but him and I never connected is the first time we're really going in deep with him and come to find out this guy's started and sold three companies before he got into the real estate investing platform and get this he's been only doing real estate investing full time for the last four years only started this four years ago. Dudes doing over 300 deals a year. You definitely want to listen in, take out your notepad and your pen you want he's going to be giving you guys some nuggets on how he's able to get these deals converted quickly. He's making on average 18,000 plus per flip and he's doing mostly wholesaling off the MLS. You guys are gonna love this interview. I know I did. Hope you guys enjoy. Welcome to unstoppable real estate investing. Well, my name is Billy Alvaro, aka the unstoppable BA, former billion dollar mortgage banker, gone bankrupt, turned professional real estate investor, where each week you'll learn the tools, strategies, systems and secrets myself and other highly successful real estate investing entrepreneurs use to start, grow and scale their businesses creating massive profits and how you can too, and we'll teach you how to put those profits to work. So you no longer have to get ready to finally experience financial freedom and generational wealth. Now let's get started. What is going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of unstoppable Rei wealth. I'm your host, Billy Alvaro. Recording this today from my home office, as I usually do in New Jersey, actually pretty excited to to interview this gentleman coming on today because he's not just an investor doing deals. This guy is a serial entrepreneur has a pretty cool background. He's started multiple companies sold multiple companies. He's gotten into this business I think about four years ago. And he's doing it in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Matt Simmons, welcome to the show my man.
Matthew 02:07
Thanks, Billy. It's an honor to be here.
Billy 02:10
You're looking good, bro. You're looking jacked. I guess your background was something to do with health.
Matthew 02:14
Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a part of my life forever. But professionally, I owned a gym for 16 years started that when I was 25 years old. And that was a great business for us. My wife came in there at the tail end. But we were open 24 hours a day. And it was about a 45 minute commute from my my new house. And so it just got to a point where, you know, I wasn't enjoying it as much. I was spending a lot of time behind the front desk. And yeah, and then offer came in to buy us out. It wasn't even something I was entertaining at the time. But we sold and ultimately with the onset of COVID. It turned out to be the best decision we could have made.
Billy 02:53
Good for you. You saw right before COVID. man Yeah, yeah. Good job. And then tell me after that you got into you had a couple of other businesses.
Matthew 03:00
Yeah. So simultaneously, while building up the business over those years, I kind of had started to really become infatuated with this idea of passive income, which is obviously what ultimately led me to real estate but and looking for some businesses that I could spin up relatively inexpensively that offered passive income. And 2011, I started up a company called Healthy Heart vending. And we were one of the first in the area that really concentrated on putting healthy foods in vending machines. And then we created a marketing campaign where we went out to businesses and talked about how, you know, you don't want your employees calling off, you want them performing optimally, you don't want them sleepy, and yet you're filling them with all of this trash all day. Same with schools. So we pitched this to the schools into some some businesses here in Pittsburgh. And it took off, we got into a lot of really good school districts pretty quickly. And we got into some pretty big businesses, that business was going really well. And at the time, there was a company here that wasn't in the healthy heart space, but was doing vending that was much larger than me and came in and offered to buy up my route by all my machines and, you know, a multiplier on the revenue. So we sold that. And then, you know, kind of looking for my next thing. It seems to be my my MO I've never really been an educational guy didn't go to college. Just always kind of a hustler, looking for my next thing and Allegheny County here in Pittsburgh. Really, I don't know if you know this, but it's the second oldest county in the nation. So we have a lot of seniors here. Yeah. And so I was looking at some different niches that could appeal to that, and came up with this idea of Keystone bath where we essentially sell walk in tubs, walk in showers, chair lifts, all that kind of home medical stuff to senior citizens, and we got some contracts with the state that allowed us to just have more work than we could do, and scale that up just in a matter of about 18 months and was approached by a company here I was looking for that state contract and they bought us out. So from there, you know, I keep getting put out of business, which is a blessing, right? But at some point, I'm like, What the hell am I going to do? So I turned on YouTube, and started watching some some real estate stuff. And fast forward four or five years. And here we are
Billy 05:20
so interesting on how you've built and sold three, congratulations, by the way. I mean, that is fantastic. It says a lot about your personality, even though you didn't set out to sell them all. You kind of position, I guess you were doing something right with the company, these competitors are coming in, you have and have been doing something really good with these other businesses, which I'm curious to see what it is because now you've built this wholesale and what flipping company?
Matthew 05:20
we do a lot of buying holds, but primarily wholesale. And yeah, that's interesting. You know, I think, you know, the consensus in this space, is that a wholesaling company is not typically a saleable asset. And so much of it is driven by that lead entrepreneur or the one who's kind of the face of the business and we're trying to get away from that. That was the reason why the gym was was able to be sold was because it had recurring revenue every month, we weren't taken in paid unfolds, we were strictly monthly. And I had a really, really, really good team that I gave some skin in the game that allowed the next buyer to come in and not have to start over at scratch. And then the same was true. For the bath business, I had some really key players that I was very generous with every business I've had. I've been very generous with my team, so as to allow me to take a step back, focus on other business adventures, and more importantly, focus on my wife and children. Now here with Fifth Avenue Property Group. You know, I have hired a CFO, and he's an amazing guy. He's a CMU grad. He's a tech guy, he's a systems and processes guy. And truth be told, I'm just a sales guy, I drive revenue, but I just make a mess. And now having him at the helm. And now basically, my only role within the organization is to manage the sales reps, which is what I do best. It's been a great fit.
Billy 07:15
So how many people do you have in your organization? Right now? I'm at 14. Good size. And what's the breakout in the structure? How many on your lead management acquisitions operations brief enough for us?
Matthew 07:25
Yes, we have two VAs overseas in the Philippines that are doing primarily admin work centered around transaction coordination and a little bit of marketing. Then we have the leads managers. So my wife handles the marketing, she puts all that out. Right now we're spending about $60,000 a month in marketing. My wife is handling that the phone rings, the lead managers handle those. We've got two lead managers handling live answer. Yep. And we've consistently all year we've been north of 90% on live answer, which is you know, as financial when we've got Yeah, we've got one lead manager that's just pounding, follow up all day. So three and leads management, then we have three acquisition reps. So they're scheduling the appointments, the three acquisition reps are going out on appointments. Our goal is to get each of those reps at least 10 in person appointments per week. So we've got three reps, then we've got one girl doing our dispo, which is essentially an agent, and she is putting the deals on the MLS, we have an assistant who helps her put some deals to our off market list. We have a transaction coordinator. And then of course, the COO. And myself, I don't think I missed anybody. We also my coo owned a construction company, and a property management company when he came on board. So they're essentially all under the same umbrella. But they're technically not employees of Fifth Avenue Property Group. So within our group there, that's that's the setup.
Billy 08:58
What kind of volume you doing. That's what unit was deal. Yeah.
09:02
So this year, I think will be north of 300. And I would say of those 300 deals, shit, probably 260 We'll probably be wholesale, we'll probably keep around 20 or so. And then the rest will flip but really minimal flips if we can avoid it, because it's truth be told it's not our strength. We haven't quite figured it out yet. And we really liked the idea of just turning that cash over as quick as possible.
Billy 09:32
Yeah, well you and I was speaking offline. And you know, that's a challenge. We got heavily into the construction side this last year, and our cash conversion cycle has just ballooned out right when we were doing 80% wholesale 70 bids on wholesale, those deals with flipping quick dollars are coming in. But when you change over and you do a rehab, especially here in the northeast, it's just a different animal. You know, it's, it's a good business, if you could withstand the year and a half that you're going to need in order to build it up and You know, scale it, but that one and a half years to scale, man, it's it's cash crunch time not cash conversion time, like you really need
Matthew 10:07
when you do that, Billy, what's give me an idea on the difference in spreads? So if you wholesale a deal, say in Jersey relative to a full scale rehab, what's the difference in profit on that? Yeah, so
Billy 10:19
our rule is if we make 50% or greater on the rehab side, and it's not a pain in the ass deal, or it's going to be stretched out for, you know, a year of the renovation side will this if we make it 50% or greater, we'll wholesale it. If it's a deal where you know, it's $100,000, wholesale, or it's 150, rehab, I look at him like no brainer, we're going to wholesale this thing. If it's 100, rehab, I'm sorry, $100,000. Wholesale, we're making 210 on the back end rehab, they don't look at and say okay, it meets the first box, we're doubling our money. But now, is this going to be a permitted job? How long? Is my cash conversion going to take? Is this going to happen in six months, 12 months or 18 months that will come to consideration? And do I have the capacity with all the jobs we have going on because if you load them up, and they're not gonna get done, it's just gonna sit. So all that comes into play. And we've been, you know, because the market has changed considerably. Here, we're at New York and New Jersey, we've been finding ourselves in bidding wars like crazy. So we're having to go in and add that value in order to actually make these deals work. They bring the profit in, which is where we got stuck, because we just ballooned up on the renovation side. It's working, thank God, but it was literally like, seven to 10 months of just deals. And not not bringing the cash in, you know, and that just hurt your cash cycles.
Matthew 11:36
Yeah, it's one one of the things here that we really just don't have that many opportunities, we use a similar formula. But our median home price is just so frickin low, that we're never going to pull a massive rehab like for us if we can get $100,000 on a rehab. That's an anomaly more commonly here with a median home price being in like the mid twos. And truth be told the average purchase price of our wholesale deals is like 60. I mean, we're more commonly looking at numbers a little more pedestrian than you were looking at, like, you know, are we going to wholesale it and make 18? Or are we going to flip it and make 40? Right, or 45? And for us that quick turn? It's been great. And it's allowed us to
Billy 12:22
scale? Its velocity of Miami, you have to get that cash coming in quickly. Right, right. Why wait, if you can bring the cash in because it just keeps the engine running quickly? Yeah, yeah. Now, you, I want to get into your strategy and your back end. But before I do, just kudos to you, man. Like I've interviewed a lot of guys over the last two years. And for you to scale as quickly as you have, in a four year timeframe to be flipping over 300 houses a year, like you're doing something fucking right. The people who are listening, have to pay attention to what you do and pay special attention to the questions I'm asking, and the answers you're given. Because you're doing something right. And I'm going to venture to say, it really has a lot to do with, obviously, your personality, your drive. But you've had three successful businesses that you've gotten to really work out how to scale. Right, so you've brought your experiences from those last three, and you brought it into this into this wholesaling business, which I'm impressed, man, you really scaled it.
Matthew 13:15
Thank you. And I truth be told, my first year was probably our most impressive year because I think the one thing that I brought in from those other businesses was just as you know, a lot of these young guys they come in and they drastically underestimate the amount of work it takes to get this done. And what I had done by coming through the grind with these other businesses, and others that I didn't even mention, that didn't go nearly as well. I learned exactly what it took. And so what I did was in November of whatever year it was that I got started. I started researching wholesaling, I found this guy, Max Maxwell on on YouTube and started binging on his stuff. And Sean Terry, and you know, some of these older school guys, good guy. Yeah. And in January, when I dropped marketing, we dropped, I think like 30,000 postcards, my first month. Thereafter, we did $100,000 in revenue, and there's been no turning back since and a lot of that was because I came into this with the right mindset of how much work it was going to take. And I was already a skilled closer I had money to spend on marketing. I think so many of these young guys and gals come in and they're just they're hamstrung in so many ways. They don't have basic people skills, let alone in home closing skills, or money for marketing. So now they're trying to maneuver all these JV deals. They're trying to, you know, bandit signs and stuff and I don't begrudge anybody's hustle. But there are certain steps you can take prior to getting started that can get you off on a quick start. And I see so many kids just jump right into this before they're really ready.
Billy 14:56
You you actually looked at this as a business model and use And holy shit. If I plug x amount of dollars in, it's going to spit out why? If I structure this thing the right way and systematize it, I could scale it relatively quickly, let me ask you this, who is your first hire that you brought in?
Matthew 15:11
So my first hire was an admin, you know, she came in and really organized my life. So I went the first six months as a solopreneur. Did 59 deals, you know, north of $600,000 in revenue, it was just close. So the good part was on a my, my margins were crazy, right? I mean, I had no team. So my my margins were over 80%. Yeah. And the other good part was I learned how to do everybody's job. Yep. So I'm, you know, you're doing the marketing, you're doing the leads management, you're scheduling the appointment, you're running the appointment, you're doing the dispo, you're doing the TC. So now when somebody tries to talk shit about just how hard their job is, I've been there, I've done it. In fact, I did it while I was doing your friends job over there at the same time. And so I've experienced it, but what I was doing was making a disorganized mess. And my wife, who at the time was a full time nurse practitioner was coming in in the evenings to my office and just trying to get my shit tightened up, because I wasn't paying bills I what I was just driving revenue. And that's always been my strength. But until I hired an admin to come in, and get me a car, I didn't even have a CRM, get me a CRM, get me a phone system, get my stuff organized. It was it was a grind, and the second half of the year, volume continued. And she really got me straightened out. So that was my first hire. And that's what I would recommend for most people, assuming you're a decent closer, assuming you have the capacity to sell a deal if you get one under contract. To me, just having somebody keeping you organized, almost like an assistant is the first step.
Billy 16:54
Yeah, guys like us with a personality. We need those organizers to make things happen and streamline and just otherwise, it's a clusterfuck. Right. I mean, we were just driving revenue and creating chaos all around us. But I don't want to gloss over what you said, you said a couple of really important things that they think the new guys and the new girls were starting out need to understand. Because you came into this, you didn't have a CRM, you didn't have a process for basically anything you just knew how to sell, market and drive in deals. And you'll figure it out afterwards. A lot. And that's important, Matt, because a lot of people out there that try to create the website, they spend x amount of dollars putting together to their Podio system or their CRM system. They're making business cards and making the business look good. But they're driving in no fucking revenue, or you want to completely opposite way. You said, I know there's a business, you structure your mind. But you didn't wait until it was perfect. You didn't wait to go out there and make sure your systems all dialed in your marketing and your fucking clothes and you figured it out. You were smart enough to bring in that organizer to then make things happen afterwards. And that's a key point that a lot of people out there don't do. They do the opposite. Right? They set everything up perfectly. And they get nothing done. They drive in no revenue.
Matthew 18:00
Yeah, for sure. I see it every day I mentor, a bunch of young kids who were you know, not only trying to start off as real estate investors, but trying to become better fathers men, and they're in all kinds of different fields of business. And you're right. I mean, I can't tell you how many conversations we have about LLCs and logos and stupid shit. And I'm like, Guys, none of it matters. close a deal. Get some money in the bank. We'll figure it
Billy 18:25
out. Yeah, that's that's the bottom line. I love it. I want to switch gears, I want to go over to the types of deals you're doing right. So your your velocity of money, your cash is coming in pretty quickly, you and I were talking offline, you're not doing in the sense traditional wholesaling. And you're also not doing with some no out there as Novation. So tell me the types of deals that you're doing. And how are you getting these deals done?
Matthew 18:48
Yeah. So you know, I think in a sense, it's very similar to innovation, but the same idea applies. And that was just that, especially when we started coming into COVID. So many of our cash buyers just dried up for any number of reasons, either they were scared off or they couldn't get loans or, you know, nobody really knew at that point what the after repair value was going to be in Pittsburgh, especially Pennsylvania was one of only two states where real estate was deemed non essential. So we couldn't do a closing so yeah, so we literally were completely frozen and so a lot of my my cash buyers, I think just decided, I'm literally going to have to go get a job or explore something else for the time being. So when our cash buyer list started to dry up, I was hearing around that same time guys talking about wholesaling on the MLS and for me, I just I couldn't wrap my head around why any seller and this was a limiting mindset. And I've encountered this a number of times in this business where I convinced myself nobody's gonna fucking do that. Like why would any Buddy, let us put their property on the MLS like at that point, why would you just call an agent and get top dollar? And right? And then you start to realize that that's trickling down to your team? Yep, they sense the same thing you do. And so it wasn't until I talked to a handful of guys and a few of which were in CG gyms, ASCO comes to mind. And these guys were like, No, we just tell them, that's the way it's gonna be. And they say, okay, and I'm thinking to myself, well, who the hell is going to do that, but then, so what I did was I got back in the field, Billy, I started going on appointments. And what I came to find was when you drop that low anchor, and you tell them, Hey, you want to push the easy button you want as is you want cash, you want no inspections, no contingencies. $50,000 we can close in 30 days, blah, blah, blah. And they look at you, you know, like you have two heads, and then you say something to the effect of, of course, you know, there's other options, if you're willing to give me a little more time and a little more access, you know, I could get you more money, but I just wasn't under the impression, that's what you were looking for, is that something you would consider, and all the sudden, all of those barriers that they have up around, try to win access, when you tell them at $4,000 relative to 50. All of a sudden, well, I guess lockbox doesn't sound that bad when you're talking about $34,000. And so what we've come to the point now is, we dropped those low anchors. And by the way, every once in a while somebody says yes, and we buy it, we just keep that one. That's a frickin homerun. But more likely than than not, they're gonna say that doesn't work. And then you transition into that pitch of saying, Well, truth be told, this is such a great house, I don't even know if it's suitable. For an investor, we're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here, when in actuality, I think this property is far better suited for a family that could move right in. And we could do that. And if you're willing to give us a little more time and access, we can get you a heck of a lot more money. And it's still going to be as is there's still going to be no contingencies. And you're still not going to pay any realtor fees. And the response has been north of 90% of the time, the seller opts for the on market option. And then from there, whether you're doing a Novation are wholesaling on the MLS. It's just a matter of mechanicals in terms of paperwork. Yet we do it one way other people do it another way. But the bottom line is guys like Eric Brewer have opened my mind to what's possible when leveraging the MLS to sell your deals, and it's completely changed our business because not only can we do more deals, these are deals we feel better about because by the way, we're telling them the truth. Yep, this old shit about oh, we're buying it and I gotta bring my contractors through. And it's a seven year old lady and Alexis, like, what is she fixing? Exactly. That's gone. Now. It's just all upfront, we're going to sell it on the MLS, we can give you more money. And by the way, we make more money. It's a win win win. And I've we've really, I've learned to love my business a lot more since we've gone that route.
Billy 23:14
So I'm going to I'm going to be asking questions as if I'm a listener, saying alright, Matthew, this sounds great. But why, how and why would a seller want to list their property? Why don't they just call a realtor? what's your what's your statement to them? Who are asking that?
Matthew 23:28
Yeah, great question. And I'll be completely honest. There are times when I asked myself the same question. And one of the things I've learned in sales is you never put your own sensibilities on your seller, right? People make decisions all the time that I cannot fathom. But the reality is, they called us for a reason. And it's usually because they want limited headaches, they want a quick sale, those sorts of things. And so one of the things we offer is we're just calling it a hybrid deal. We're saying I know you said you wanted all cash. I know you said you wanted a 30 day close, but in the face of what me and the 10 other investors that have come and offered you. Is that really what you want? I mean, are you willing to give up this much for that? And if the answer is yes, no one can do it better than us. And we'd love to buy it at that number. But if they're pushing back on price, and you're now like I said offering 50 And you say well, okay, so I think we've both come to a reality here, Mr. Seller, that maybe an all cash offer from a cash buyer is not what you want, right? We know now based on the fact that you've talked to so many investors, that that's probably not what you want, but what's the alternative? Well, the alternative is listed. Well, let's talk about that. And then you go into all the challenges with listing it, you're locked into a contract with a realtor, you're still going to be responsible for paying that realtor paying all the broker fees. You're going to be responsible for, you know, the response to inspection to do any repairs that may come up, you're going to be responsible, they're going to want you to clean this out all of these things. And so what if we could offer you a hybrid model that wasn't quite as convenient as that cash offer. And wasn't all the headaches of a retail listing, somewhere in the middle there, we're combining the two get you a fair price. And we take care of all the inspections, we manage the showings, we pay the realtor and we do what's best, which is guarantee a smooth transaction for you. And by the way, if you agree to that, we're gonna give you a $5,000 guarantee that says if we don't get this thing sold and X amount of time, and that's negotiable belly, we're going to buy it ourselves. And so we've been offering that 5k guarantee for about a year we bought two houses rarely
Billy 25:57
over what you're telling them you're gonna buy it for. What's the 5k? Is what over what you're listing it for?
Matthew 26:04
No, no, no, the 5k guarantee is just if we don't perform, you're paying a guy non refundable hand money basically
Billy 26:13
got it. Got it.
Matthew 26:13
So we have that all over our TV commercial. So if you want peace of mind called Fifth Avenue Property Group, we're not one of these Fly By Night investors and throws a bunch of shit at the wall and sees what sticks. Now we're going to put up $5,000 that says we're going to perform to get this done for you. So my competition is going in, they're offering 50 grand, because that's the only number that they know they can perform on because they don't have the capacity to put these things on the MLS. And we come in at 84 with a 5k guarantee. Yeah, you're right. And rarely, rarely do we actually ended up closing on these things. So it's just about differentiating yourself remembering. It's not like they call it a realtor and you're trying to talk them in to your service. They call it a cash buyer, you're giving them the cash buyer option. But when they scoff at that, you say, Okay, now what are you going to go ahead and rent it? Are you going to fix it up? Are you really going to list it? And deal with all of that? Well, here's a hybrid option that we can offer you that kind of gets you the best of both worlds. And like I said, it's been it's been overwhelming the number of people that have gone for that.
Billy 27:21
I love it. It's a great model. We do a lot of listing on the MLS out here we do a combination will listen to MLS and sell the cash buyers and Melissa, the MLS and do the Novation model are you finding you're doing the same? Are you gearing yourselves towards cash buyers,
Matthew 27:35
now we're doing the same. But we're doing the same without without technically doing innovation. We're just literally telling the seller, this is exactly what we're doing. They're signing all the listing paperwork, we haven't had any issues whatsoever. And we then have to put that Novation fee, of course, their release fee. And this case on the seller side with the Novation, you know, you can't have that that fee on the buyer side because they're not going to fund it. In this case, we just put the release fee on the seller side. And as long as you're upfront with the seller, and you tell them you're going to be making money on it, we haven't had much pushback at all. So it
Billy 28:14
sounds like a simpler process innovation, you're not going through all the trust documents and power of attorneys and all this other crap. And you're just basically getting a release fee, which sounds ridiculously easy.
Matthew 28:25
It is however, I will say this we are not as protected, right as you are with the Novation documents, and we know that going into it. But this is the way we've structured it and it's worked really well I wouldn't change it right
Billy 28:38
now. Yeah, I mean, you got to streamline and look, you're gonna get bid in the ask every once in a while just like you have to pay out the $5,000. But really, that's the cost to do a business. If you're analyzing your business, Matthew, which I know you are, and you're able to get X amount percent more deals with the marketing that you're doing, saying that you have this $5,000 guarantee. Like it's a cost of doing business, you're making more money in the back end, probably the same thing with these type innovation, hybrid type deals if you do it. Right. And yes, it is what it is exactly. Great model. Great. So fantastic. And you've been doing this model now for how long? Because you've been open for four years.
Matthew 29:12
So we've been doing this for the last two. Yeah, when Eric Brewer brought innovations to collective genius. I started you know, hitting up guys like Jim's Aspell, Eric Brewer and many others and trying to wrap my head around, we could do all this and again, I brought it back to my team, my agent, my broker, and they're like, no, no one is going to agree to this. And it wasn't until I went on appointments. And I started pitching it in such a way that was basically like, Listen, I'll be honest with you. This is a great house. Like I really think this is suitable for a family. It wasn't until we got the pitch down that we all wrapped our head around it and from there, which is because we go into it thinking they'd be crazy not to do it. They do it
Billy 29:58
right. I love it. Are you finding the deals doing the hybrid on the MLS? Are they mainly prettier houses, older houses that don't need a ton of work?
Matthew 30:09
It's all of them. No, I would say it's probably 6040 or older crappy investment type properties that were selling to cash buyers, and 40% or livable move in ready conventional finance? Got it? And
Billy 30:21
how are you handling the inspection items fixing up that crap? Are you doing the normal, we take care of the attorney, the legal fees, the expenses, you're going to net out your $84,000. And everything else from that point forward is on us.
Matthew 30:33
Exactly right. The only other expense we're hit with is I think we pay the transfer tax on the difference between what we told them they were going to get and what it actually sells for. So if we tell them 84 And so they're now paying closing costs and transfer tax on 84. Because that's what they're getting, we turn around and sell it for 125, the title company will dock us the difference there. But otherwise, yeah, we're taking care of everything. But here's here's the thing. When the markets hot, you know, you're telling the seller, rest assured this is as is you have nothing to worry about. We've got construction crews that can handle the buyers response to inspection, you don't have to worry about it. And then you have a good agent who's going out to the sellers, saying we're not doing shit, it's as is. So the buyer, the seller is not in a position to take care of anything. And that's why it's priced the way it is. So truth be told the repairs that we're hit with, on the buyers response to inspection. If it's been framed properly by the listing agent, we very rarely end up doing any repairs. And so we're kind of telling the seller, they can rest assured they're not going to have to worry about it telling the buyer we're not doing anything if it comes up we do it. Yeah, most times. We don't have to.
Billy 31:52
Yeah, well, it's key that listing agent you have is the key to making that whole thing work. Are they on your team full time? Or full time on your team? Yeah, yeah,
Matthew 32:01
it's full time. She's also a broker. And she handles a lot of dispo off market as well. So she's very valuable.
Billy 32:07
Yeah, she she's this book. Are you mentioned earlier? Yeah. Yeah. Smart man. I love I freaking love, love the model. I want to switch gears a little bit. I want to go into personal development, right? Because I was looking at your bio, what you sent over. And you guys like us were heavily into personal development. Did you? I don't know if I read this correctly. But did you take a year off like a sabbatical? And do like some serious?
Matthew 32:31
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you know, I don't know if I would call it a sabbatical. And I don't know if I would say it was necessarily that intentional. But as I said, I sold these businesses. And truth be told, from a financial standpoint, I was in a really good spot. I was in my early 40s, I'm 48. Now, I was in a really good spot financially. My wife was a full time nurse practitioner. So she had our health insurance covered. You know, house was paid off, life was good, you know, but I was young and trying to figure out what I wanted to do next. And I didn't want to just jump back into the corporate world. I've never, that's never been my thing. And I just didn't have any bright ideas as far as what I wanted to spin up. Because when I sold that last business, I thought I was going to be a gym owner for the rest of my life. And so mentally, I had kind of checked out on what else was going to happen. So when this first happened, you know, I was getting a lot of applause, I was getting a lot of attention. like, Damn, dude, like, you got the golden touch here, you're killing it. And truth be told, I was laying around in sweatpants all day, you know, going out hanging out drinking just not I just wasn't performing to the best of my ability. And because I had money, it masked all of that to the outside world. It looked as if this dude's killing it. And I was in a lot of ways, but I knew that this wasn't even close to my full potential. And truth be told, my wife knew it too. So I'll never forget I'm in my driveway one day and I hadn't read a book since I dropped out of college. And I'm I get audible I download audible this five years ago, the app and I listened to Rich Dad Poor Dad. And I finished washing my truck and um, it literally and I know this is corny because everybody cites this book as being the book that kind of put them over the edge. But something about that book really just sparked something in my mind, like, Damn, you could be doing so much more. And that set me down this journey of reading a book a week, for a year. In fact, more than a book a week, I read 65 books, and the next 12 months and didn't just read them, I studied them and I really listened to them and I took notes. I listened to them in my in my ear and I read them and I took notes. I really studied these books. It's not just about how many books you read. Of course, it's you know the impact that they have on you and over the course of this 12 months. Like, I literally transform, I was not an early riser. I always got by on just having some talent. But I was never the hardest worker in the room. And this transformation took me from just a regular dude, to getting up at four o'clock, I've gotten up, and that's gonna sound like I'm bragging. But I'm super proud of this. I've gotten up at four o'clock, almost 1600 days in a row. So COVID, broken ribs, hangovers, you name it, I have been getting up at four o'clock almost over four years in a row, my wife keeps track of it here on our whiteboard. So I get up, I work out, I eat a certain way, the way that I make my decisions, the way I interact with my wife, the way I am as a son, as a father, as a friend as it all of these things completely transformed. And so by the time I sat down, and watch that YouTube video, which is about 11 months or so later and saw wholesaling you already, dude, I was just a savage. You couldn't stop me if you wanted to. And so not everybody can take 12 months of their life and go do that. But I would argue that you reframe that mindset stuff as a revenue generating activity. So if you're just getting started, yeah, you got to cold call. Yeah, you have to tax thing. Yeah, you got to go knock on doors, like we all did. But you better simultaneously be getting your head, right, because you're gonna get your ass beat so bad, that if you're not mentally ready, you're gonna quit. And so I like to tell my students and the folks that I mentor, I don't charge anybody for anything, but I help a lot of people. I like to tell them you've got to look at mindset work is a revenue generating activity, and something that you are prioritizing, as long as you're simultaneously taking action to generate revenue. Because if you think that you're going to hate your job all day, be an asshole to your wife, be a poor father, not be good, good steward to the world. And you're gonna flip the switch every night at six o'clock and become this savage real estate investor, you're gonna have it that way until you rewire everything. You just can't do it. Yeah, that was
Billy 37:19
I'm really happy. You said that dude. Because that is the foundation I believe in success in life. It's first your mindset. It's your mindset. First, it's your relationships. It's your physical ability, right? Your mental ability of visibility. If you don't work on yourself continuously, and you don't get yourself to the next level, you're not going to be a great father, you're not going to be a great husband, you're not going to be good to your kids, you're going to treat your employees like shit. You're going to be dragging us through today, you're gonna be drinking too much over eating waking up too fucking late smoking too much shit. Like, when you work on you first. And you become and you're, you're obviously you, obviously you did it. And within a year, and you were successful prior to which is weird, because you were successful. never read any books, which isn't normal, like, like, you're an anomaly. I can only imagine what the fuck you're going to be doing for the next day, with what you've done over the last four with working on yourself. Because growth you've done, you've done with not having that personality profile or that that mindset and now you have it like unstoppable is what you're going to be it's literally that important to do in your life is to work in that mindset on a daily basis. And like you, I'm up early in the morning, treat my body like a template constantly feed my mind consistently, I meditate three times a day, like, I do things different from the normal person out there, because I want to, I want to live a completely different lifestyle. I don't want to, I don't want to struggle I want to offer myself to other people. I want to be able to help. I want to be able to give back and you can't do it if you're not optimized. And optimization starts with the body, mind and spirit. All three and alignment. And then if you have those together, like anything you want to do literally anything you want to do the world is your oyster, you're you're gonna be able to go out there and just attack and make it happen. 100% agree. Yeah, bro. Love that you're in the personal development man. I'm so pissed at you and I haven't really connected because I know we've been missed each other. You haven't been there for a year and a half you were going virtual. I was not there prior to that because it a COVID ship. But you're definitely the type of dude, I want to
Matthew 39:15
thank God. Yeah, we'll definitely link up here and 24 I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, no doubt,
Billy 39:19
bro. Listen, this was I mean, it was a 38 minute interview you gave a lot. A lot of nuggets, Matt, like a ton of nuggets, just mindset business structure, do the Novations online, how you got yourself, you know, getting into this business and for your timeframe. If people want to reach out to you, how do they find you online?
Matthew 39:37
So interestingly enough, I'm just now starting to get into social media. So it's a little late to the game for me, but it was never my thing. But I've been doing this mentorship for these 50 guy so I was on a podcast a few years ago, and I got hit up by a ton of kids who were looking for help didn't have money for mentorship. A lot of them came from disadvantaged backgrounds and basically I started Doing this free mentorship for them. So it's up to 50 Guys, and I've kept it there. But basically what I did was I turn the camera on now. And I record myself on these zoom calls with these kids for two hours every week and we're going to launch a podcast around that kind of sharing some of the nuggets that we discuss. And it's not just real estate, it's all business but even more importantly, a lot of these guys don't have father figures. So it's around being a just a better man in general. And so I've been releasing some snippets of this stuff on social media and you can find that at my Instagram at the real Matthew Simmons. So that's where you can find me hit me up happy to help in any way I can.
Billy 40:42
Love it, bro. You've been an inspiration speaking you I really looking forward to seeing what happens with you over the next 10 years you're a you're a damn good guy. And I don't know you that well from just this podcast but the energy you bring the values that you bring the attention that you bring into your family and yourself like top notch bro,
Matthew 40:58
thank you. I appreciate it. And I enjoyed talking to you as you know your your reputation and CG procedure. You're You're a legend and I knew about you as soon as I came in. So I really look forward to connecting this year.
Billy 41:08
Appreciate it. Good. Good having you on. Thanks, Billy. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of unstoppable real estate investing wealth. My mission is to give you my listeners the blueprint for success, the insider secrets for starting, growing and scaling your real estate investing business, you could experience and live the unstoppable lifestyle. I've made it simple for you to catapult yourself to success. Go to Billyssecrets.com That's Billyssecrets.com. There you will find every single tool, tip, trick strategy system and secret used to make millions of dollars as a real estate plus everything my team uses, and my guests use all in one place for you to tap into. You can start grow and scale your real estate investment business. I really hope you implement what you're learning. I hope you utilize these tools, tips, tricks, strategies and secrets. And I hope to see you on the next episode. God bless bye bye